Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205
03/10/2009 01:00 PM Senate TRANSPORTATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB48 | |
| SB53 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| SB 48 | |||
| * | SB 53 | ||
SB 53-APPROP.: BRIDGES, SERVICE ROADS, TRAILS
1:40:21 PM
SENATOR KOOKESH announced the consideration of SB 53.
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT, Sponsor of SB 53, said he initially
brought this legislation forward last year to bring attention to
bridge maintenance and repair needs statewide. Often legislators
center on the needs of their districts, which over the years has
resulted in a loss of focus on the fact that the state needs a
statewide transportation system. Bridge structures are one
component of the statewide highway system.
Acknowledging that he is under no delusion that a separate
appropriation bill is likely to pass the body, he said he is
making this appropriation request to highlight the need
statewide. Hopefully this will foster discussion and catch the
ear of finance committee members and perhaps they will steer
some state resources toward the bridge infrastructure needs
across the state.
SENATOR THERRIAULT explained that Section 1 asks for a $25
million general fund appropriation to the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities for design, planning, and
construction or repairs on existing bridges on the state highway
system. Section 2 asks for a $10 million general fund
appropriation to the statutorily existing, local service roads
and trails (LSRT) program, which has not been funded in a number
of years. This section of law talks about DOTPF nominating small
road projects to a list and addressing them as LSRT funds are
available.
1:43:15 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT related that local governments benefited from
this program because small projects that didn't qualify for
funding through the federal highway stream could be
accomplished. He has been involved in a number of such projects
and he would suggest that if money for big projects is tight,
perhaps some small projects could be accomplished if the LSRT
program were to be funded. He noted that last year DOTPF
testified that restarting the LSRT program would take time.
Since it was well supported in the 1980s he thought that while
he was asking for money, he would bring attention to the fact
that the law is still on the books.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said DOTPF has provided information on bridge
work that has been done and projects that might be targeted. The
packet includes pictures of bridge structures and some clearly
demonstrate deplorable states of disrepair. He initially brought
the legislation forward following the disastrous bridge collapse
in Minnesota. The travelling public takes it for granted that
the highways and bridges they travel on are adequately
maintained. That's not always the case and, unfortunately, some
structures in this state could be close to catastrophic failure.
Highlighting that fact and steering funds to chip away at that
problem is the right thing to do, he said.
1:46:29 PM
SENATOR MEYER said he doesn't have copies of the pictures.
SENATOR THERRIAULT apologized and offered to make copies
available.
SENATOR MEYER questioned the necessity of the bill since a lot
of the stimulus money is for this purpose.
SENATOR THERRIAULT suggested that Mr. Healy could speak to that.
ROGER HEALY, Chief Engineer, Division of Design & Engineering
Services, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
(DOTPF), said this bill is not irrelevant. The department's
report explains that bridge projects take time and the timelines
of the stimulus do not fit well with the requirements and time
to build or replace a bridge. Coast Guard clearances, state
historical preservation clearances, and hydraulic analysis all
take time and those processes don't fit well with the stimulus.
1:49:41 PM
SENATOR MEYER questioned whether the appropriation is sufficient
to address all the bridge and road needs. He recalled DOTPF
stating it has a $10 million backlog.
MR. HEALY said this amount of money won't fix all the problems,
but it gives the department flexibility to immediately direct
resources where they are imminently needed. While most federal
money will be tied up in major projects, this money goes to
repair essential infrastructure. These projects aren't high
profile.
SENATOR MEYER questioned why the request isn't simply added to
the governor's capital budget.
SENATOR THERRIAULT again stated that he is under no delusion
that a separate appropriation bill will make it through the
committee process. Although the transportation committee doesn't
generally debate the need for bridges, he said he'd like that
debate to start here. Hopefully this will spark thought so that
when it comes time for the finance committee to amend the
governor's capital budget there will be a realization that
bridges need some focus. $25 million is an arbitrary number and
he realizes the statewide need is much larger. He explained that
he directed DOTPF to list the bridges that have the highest need
and he would note that a number of them fall on major
transportation routes.
1:53:52 PM
SENATOR DAVIS observed that when DOTPF gave this committee a
department overview several weeks ago they reported that they
were on track with respect to bridge inspections and repairs.
Because she understood that DOTPF wouldn't ask for additional
money, she questions the need for this appropriation.
MR. HEALY apologized that he wasn't at that meeting. He said he
believes that this kind of appropriation is needed because
bridge maintenance and repair needs are ever increasing. For
example, the Seward Highway bridges are limited to one lane of
traffic and a recent inspection of the Tyee Bridge in Skagway
showed that it too is in need of repair. It's a federal
requirement to inspect these structures every two years, but
accidents happen and things deteriorate in the meantime. This
would be a state funded program, which would allow a great deal
of flexibility that isn't available in a federal program. Given
the length of the list and the other needs mentioned, the total
repairs will be sizeable. "In any case, I would speak in favor
of this," he said.
1:57:27 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN expressed discomfort asking this one committee
to prioritize how DOTPF ought to spend $25 million. He asked if
this will result in different factions within the department
using this committee to get ahead of the game.
MR. HEALY said no; a road network is a vital part of the state's
economy and bridges are an essential link. Right now DOTPF is
struggling with the Seward Highway and commerce is affected.
When bridges are weight-limited truckers can't carry legal loads
and tour buses are impacted.
SENATOR PASKVAN said he understands the concept of needs, but
it's always as compared to what. This discussion is about the
needs of bridges and he's uncomfortable saying that this need is
more important than a need that he doesn't know about. DOTPF
should be presenting an assessment of their overall needs and
priorities, not just the bridge component. It's not that the
need isn't there; I know about bridge needs, he added.
2:01:08 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT said Mr. Healy is here to express an opinion
on behalf of the commissioner and department; they see a need
and support the legislation. Passing the bill on to the finance
committee would be an expression of support that bridge
maintenance and repair is a statewide problem. That committee
will determine what, if any, level of funding to build into the
capital budget. Clearly, this bill will not make it to the
Senate floor, but this is an avenue for the transportation
committee to express support for bridge projects, he said. Keep
in mind that traffic can continue to flow if there is a frost
heave or a pot-hole in the road, but if a bridge collapses or is
downgraded it becomes a potential chokepoint on the highway
system.
SENATOR MEYER expressed the view that there is nothing wrong
with letting the finance committee know that bridges and roads
are important. That should be expected from the transportation
committee. However, if there are specific bridge projects that
are "must haves" for DOTPF, that should be in the governor's
capital budget. They should be out in the open and not through
the backdoor as a separate appropriation bill, he stated.
2:04:34 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT clarified that DOTPF is here at his request.
"I'm the one who came up with the idea of how do we focus some
attention on the bridge network and they're just here supporting
my request," he said.
BRAD SCHWARTZ, Transportation Planning Manager, Mat-Su Borough,
stated support for SB 53. He said that DOTPF and local
governments often have difficulty finding adequate funding to
provide needed transportation infrastructure to keep pace with
growth. Oftentimes bridges are on the short end of the funding
spectrum until a serious problem arises. While this bill will
provide for a portion of these immediate needs, there is also
need for a long-term mechanism to provide stable funding for
both construction and maintenance. Residents and nonresidents
alike need to know that they are driving on a safe bridge and
highway system. This bill will bring that goal closer.
SENATOR KOOKESH closed public testimony. He stated support for
bridges, roads, and trails and asked the committee's indulgence
to allow this dialog to continue in the finance committee.
SENATOR MEYER expressed the view that bridges ought to be given
serious consideration as the capital budget is prepared, and
emphasized that if a particular bridge needs immediate repair
that specific project should be in the governor's capital
budget.
SENATOR MENARD described the bill as a call for attention and
said she is comfortable moving it along so the finance committee
can take a look.
SENATOR PASKVAN questioned whether the committee should keep the
arbitrary $25 million figure in the bill or send the message
with no dollar amount attached.
SENATOR KOOKESH commented that any number this committee picks
will be arbitrary so he would be comfortable sending the number
the sponsor selected.
2:10:16 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT informed members that the bill he introduced
last year was forwarded to finance from the transportation
committee and perhaps it sparked attention because $20 million
was included in the capital bond package. That money is already
being put to good use on bridges that have become problematic.
Although some may think this bill is a waste of time, it does
advance the discussion, he stated.
SENATOR KOOKESH recalled the discussion last year centered on
the difference between using general fund money versus federal
funds for emergency repairs.
SENATOR MENARD cautioned against backdoor approaches.
SENATOR THERRIAULT highlighted the difference between
operational and capital expenditures and what elicits discussion
in the building. In general, discussions about capital
expenditures are left to the finance committee; there's never
been much input from the transportation committee, for example,
about problems associated with the transportation system.
SENATOR MENARD characterized DOTPF as an entity that gets a lot
of controls but that doesn't go through as many processes as
other departments.
SENATOR THERRIAULT suggested that DOTPF takes care of a larger
group of capital assets than any other state agency.
CHAIR KOOKESH asked the will of the committee.
2:14:33 PM
SENATOR MEYER moved to report [SB 53] from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, SB 53 moved from the Senate Transportation
Standing Committee.
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